Thursday, November 02, 2006

Well People

I don’t mean to be a prima donna. I really don’t. But at this point, there’s really no other way for me to be. Naturally, I think, I notice when wagtheslate gets the shaft. The first time was here. In that instance, I gave Geoff the benefit of the doubt. He was just the middleman, and if I’d known he was going to take my request to the actual Editors (when the fuck has that every happened?), I’d have moderated my tone. So I made myself not resent Geoff. The key word in there is “made”, because no matter my mistakes, Geoff could have been more helpful.

Both before and after that incident, Geoff appended quite a few posts to articles--a few of mine and more than a few of august’s--without the links to wagtheslate we’d put in them. I didn’t have a problem with this. It was a slight, but perhaps for a somewhat good reason. Nevertheless, it’s within their discretion to include links, if they so choose.

Jump forward then to Dkos vs. “the fray”. Now you all know that the real action didn’t take place in “the fray”, but took place here on wagtheslate. But did Geoff work wagtheslate in his fraywatch column? No.

Then comes the fraywatch Easterbrook smack down follwed by the oh so original fraywatch My Two Cents. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but I could have sworn I’d seen both of those things somewhere else. Hmmmm… where oh where I wonder?

But you know what, not a big deal. Really. The ideas are obvious ones and I really don’t think we need fraywatch or appends recognition. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not noticing.

And then today Geoff deletes my wagtheslate post in the fraywatch fray. I ask him why? He replies Solicitation.

So clearly this has been building for some time. Sure, I had suspicions, but nothing definitive, or actionable, or worth wrongly fracturing what I felt was a decent relationship with Geoff. But I have to say, “Solicitation”? Since when is that particular rule enforced? Don’t get me wrong. Geoff is on solid ground. It says right there in the rules of the road that you’re not allowed to solicit. But I have to say, the fray editors is given full discretion, and they’ve all exercised that discretion liberally over the years, including Geoff and including with regard to wagtheslate (and bestofthefray).

Bottom line people, I no longer give Geoff the benefit of the doubt. He purposely showed wagtheslate to the Editors at Slate in a less than flattering light. He is actively working to undermine wagtheslate while simultaneously taking liberties with the creativity and interest it is generating. He’s threatened. And like a little twerp, he’s not upping his game, he’s playing dirty. Geoff is a dick. A dick. He’s not acting on orders from above. He’s acting of his own volition. And it’s malicious.

I could accept not having an ally in Geoff. He has his own vision. But in its absence, I did expect benevolence. But I can no longer convince myself that Geoff’s slights are all purely coincidental. I’ve ignored the pattern as long as I can, and this latest incident really is sufficient in and of itself to convince me the guy is an insecure, belligerent, duplicitous jerk.

Knowing this. Knowing that this guy is going to take the credit for our good ideas to further his own pathetic existence really does bother me. Not only has he certainly sabotaged our efforts with the staff at Slate, he’s going to continue to use us as long as we let him. I think it’s time to seriously discuss our relationship with Slate. I don’t mind doing them the favor, but I do mind bloodsucking leaches getting ahead thanks to our efforts. It really just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I’m sure I’ll get over it, but fuck man.

19 comments:

topazz said...

Ironically, Ender - the latest of slate's casualties joins you tonight: My Two Cents.

Apparently Emily Yoffe felt geoff's highlighting of doodahman's column in Fraywatch last week was "undermining" to her own.

Can't have that, now can we? So out he goes.

rundeep said...

How about Hayashi Track? Based on Dawn's link?

Or: Defrayed.

MsZilla said...

Wait wait wait....

So what are they going to do with the eight or nine other people who do basically the same thing in the DP Fray every week!?

topazz said...

ms zilla:

those parodying posters are another thing entirely, they just post in the dp fray. If you go back and read that intro in fraywatch, what geoff was essentially doing was giving doodahman his own column - geoff culled questions from the dp fray and handed dood his own set to respond to, separate and apart from Prudie's - but his plan was to feature both columns each week, two distinctly different styles of advice.

Apparently, THIS is what Emily Yoffe objected to.

JohnMcG said...

As far as I'm concerned Slate has sufficently contributed by bringing us together. They don't owe us anything; we don't owe them anything.

You have to remember -- Slate and Slate's writers exist on the notion that they can do something that the rest of us can't. Anything that calls that into question, be it a parallel advice column to DP or a high-quality forum made up of the same posters is a threat to them.

I think Geoff is being pressured. I don't think he's willing to go to the mat for us, and I'm not certain I blame him. But if we get any real traction or success over here, it will be an embarrassment for them.

I think Geoff learned the exact wrong lesssons from the dKos incident. They seemed to take aways that because sites like dKos are run my people like our anonymous friend, they don't need to worry about losing their best posters. "Yay, Fray!" What they should have learned is that there's an opening their for a smart political forum, and if they don't fill it somebody else will, and soon.

MsZilla said...

I'm not sure I agree with your read on the Geoff situation. But I do I think Geoff shook them when he gave them all that list of our qualifications. Have you read through that thread? The comforting image of us as bored housewives or college punks wasting time in class or whatever is gone.

They're in a different place now without Microsoft's deep pockets and benignly neglectful oversight. The closest sign on the map to here reads "There be Dragons".

Now adding the technological nightmare they have with Microsoft changing their authentication technology out from under them with Vista and Windows Live they're really running scared.

Some of the editorial staff have some credentials, but most of these people are freelance writers. Read through their bios on the bottom of their articles. Google around. Look at their own blogs and websites. These people don't know how to actually do anything for the most part. Much less most of the crap they write about. They have no other skill than pontification, and most of them are no great shakes at even that.

Remember JTF? He's a very high powered aeronautical engineer. Fritz really is a judge. I know what twif does for a living and it isn't washing windows. Many of us are similarly powered in our own fields. We have lots and lots of real lawyers, doctors, businessmen, educators, and writers in our own right. Real life trumps their windbag crap and they know it.

Some of that biography stuff the Fraysters posted is hooey. But they know that a certain amount of those are verifiable. You guys don't know this, but I have submitted articles for this place so they have my information. They've verified mine for sure because I know they contacted the editor I gave them as a reference in response to an article I submitted. Which they didn't buy.

I really am a programmer and published writer. People know me and they know who I work for. Microsoft just tried to grab the name and copyright of one of the sites I write for to use for their own family-based website and even more importantly to this discussion we fought them off with public opinion alone. (that's part of what has been driving me gray the last few weeks)

It's part of why I'm so patient about this place. There is no way we could have fought that off three months into creating that site. We've been slowly but surely building for three years to get to the point where we are. And it's not just us. Metafilter didn't turn into the insane juggernaut it is overnight. Neither did slashdot.

I don't think it will take that long here. For one thing we're not trying to break into the thick mainstream skull about videogames. We're just trying to talk about politics and other interesting stuff.

Just take your time, guys. Do the work and do it right. It will come. Be wary of a huge flash - it will fade all too quickly. Do the work well so when the floodlights do hit there's something here that can't be washed away in the glare.

Now that I think about it I still have that article running around. I wonder if the Escapist wants it?

LentenStuffe said...

Hi All,

Slate is an on-line magazine whose sole purpose is to make money and generate profits. How exactly does Ender's enterprise rhyme with that purpose? How exactly does BOTF augment Slate sales? Fraywatch itself is but an instrument of the most pragmatic utility: it exists to bolster Slate's image by highlighting only those discussions that make it look good.

Sure, many of the Fray writers are brilliant, even better than the paid staff of the magazine, but what does that avail fraysters in the long run? We are there solely at the behest of the owners and editors of the magazine, not to ply our own agendas. Ender has come on to the Fray advertizing his blog, trying to coax writers away by admonishing the magazine for its retarded technology, and so 'solicitation' is the correct word. His umbrage here attests to the basic accuracy of Geoff's snide remark.

Besides, Ender has made no effort to distinguish his blog from Slate. His name is both misguided and mildly litigious. Actually, it is a foolish name, and it doesn't adequately define his purpose autonomous of Slate's. In fact, many of the posts on Wag remain obsessed with the Fray. It's time to cut loose and define your own direction, come what may.

This is a good experiment but that it persists in loitering on the deck of a sinking ship only further makes Geoff's case. Wag now has some of the Fray's finest writers, but y'all seem reluctant to leave the mother. Why?

Having said all that, I do agree that Geoff is a total prick. He always shunned my contributions, partly because I had no interest in endearing myself to him by extemporizing on the illiterates writing for the magazine. But then Ender too did his able best to have my contributions relegated to the dust heap, and this damaging post of his deeply wounded my efforts. It is the sole reason I refuse to contribute to this blog. He knows precisely why because I have e-mailed him the reason, so he is disingenuous to pretend otherwise, say, by inviting me to post here. Of all the names and insults I have received on Fray, and they were many, Ender's was the most deliberately malicious, for he sought to affect the reception of my Raison d'etre, my writing.

Still, I wish this project all the best. You are very fine writers and thinkers, you don't need the blessing of Slate to prosper, and you are already evolving beautifully all by yourselves. Wag's reputation would be greatly enhanced (actually, more greatly enhanced) if Ender could induce IOZ and Betty-The-Crow and Doodahaman and Shrieking-Violet and Fritz_Gerlich and Schadenfreude and The-Bell to post here. I would only urge a name change: Why not just ... WAG?

bright said...

doodahman's new blog.

Anonymous said...

Ender, it seems an increasingly pointless thing to be worrying about. Slate, partly from technical deficiency, and partly by editorial intent is discouraging the general-purpose posting that is orthogonal to their front-page content, but which I still feel like occasionally generating.

So fuck 'em.

I'm just as happy to drain out my "BOTF top-post" material here and on my blog as on their site. A respected audience is slowly building, so what's the difference? On the off chance a Slate article stimulates me, I can reply there on their terms.

Now if only we could get Fritz and Ducadmo and Splendid and the greek fellers, and...

But yeah, a name change would do well. ALso, you may need some sort of index view if you get very many users.

K

JohnMcG said...

Prediction -- after the election, Dickerson's column will be a recap of the highlights of various political fights between the Democratic House and/or Senate and the Republcan White House. But what would be a good title for such a column??

Aha -- years ago, Slate had a column called "Best of the Fray" -- that would be ideal!

Of course it would mean the Fray Board attached to that column would need to be exclusively about Dickerson's column, even though Dickerson's engagement with the Fray remains at zero.

And the third Fray and the Axis of Evil will bite the dust.

LentenStuffe said...

Ender,

There's nothing wrong with my 'skin' that the avoidance of your malice won't fix. You are to your blog as Geoff is to 'his' fray: it's a form of hypocrisy I'm weary of pointing out.

I note that you still haven't explained why Slate should indulge you, or why they owe you any explanation. You are pilfering their copyright for very self-serving ends. You ought to change your name, but apparently you know this .

BTW I found your post, "Well People" very thin-skinned indeed. I'm assuming you know what that means; so, if you can't stand the heat from Geoff in Geoff's kitchen, I suggest you get out. Of course the reason you are still there is to entice more of the 'valued set' of posters to your blog. Honestly, they could do a lot worse than join you. Why so many ex-fraysters cannot stand on their own originality and creativity outside of the Fray is very perplexing. IOZ and Betty are good examples of what yourself and Doodahaman are not doing, that is, being autonomous of the thing that sired them.

That's all.

Best Wishes to you and all here.

LentenStuffe said...

Ender,

Likewise!

No thanks!

I agree about their refusal and wager it has everything to do with you: they probably decline for much the same reason I do.

Hint:

Sadly, those that I enjoy the most will never become contributors to WtS.

This is a curious aspersion on your current crop of contributors.

LentenStuffe said...

I See. Thanks, Ender.

See you around.

MsZilla said...

Misterioso,

I think we went over the fact that we are participating in the big world. Just not here.

Good luck, God speed and we'll see you on the other side.

JohnMcG said...

So, if I were to get banned at dKos, I could just post under some other name, right? Or, I could e-mail my posts to my buddy and have him post them, or he could send me his user ID and password so we could share it, right?

rundeep said...

hi misterioso:

Don't you have to go fight over whether Kerry is a moron or not? I saw yesterday someone got troll-rated for saying "what do we do if we don't win everything!" So good to see y'all haven't changed. Go ahead and use that money we gave the campaigns. That's why we have it. Go Dems.

topazz said...

Zeus Boy: you are one of the most interesting, talented and prolific writers to show up in the fray in a long time. I wish we had more international posters like yourself, (although I'll also note: enough already from Canada. You guys are well represented.)

I meant it when I said we were lucky to have you, and I hope you'll continue contributing both here and on the fray, despite what anyone may post about you personally. We are not the sheep you keep insisting we are, sweetheart. Good writing is good writing.

So to sum up: despite Ender, and your own flaming volatile temper, this place is good for you - so use it to your advantage. And remember that this is a group blog, it isn't any one person's blog.

--- --- --- --- ---

Frustrated as I've been with the technical difficulties over at the fray - I have no intention of abandoning it, and I still want to belong to that community. I'm fed up with the amount of time it presently takes to try to interact over there - but I see it more as an indifference on WAPO's part to fix whatever's wrong and a low priority in their eyes to ante up the funds to upgrade the whole system.

LentenStuffe said...

Topazz,

That was very kind of you to say.

I wanted to respond to this, Consult with topazz (for one) on how not to be a victim, when I first read it by saying that if I were to consult you about anything it would not be for that reason, but instead to remind myself how a decent and gracious and spiteless person conducts herself, and that for my own edification.

I know Ender meant it as a compliment, even if his wording was off.

I find the Fray is gone completely haywire and is virally infected, in more ways than one. Then, Geoff's belligerence -- maybe as a defense mechanism -- is quite distasteful. The ethos he promulgates doesn't appeal to me. He of all people could afford to be gracious, or to consult you to know how, but instead he affects patronizing airs and estranges his community.

What did they expect would happen when people got to know one another in their forums, that they'd suspend all social niceties in order to keep their eye on the ball, which is to discuss the fire and brimstone harangues from the pen of Hitchens etc? If BOTF is a community they deprecate, then they should flush it entirely. Either shit or get off the pot, but all these mixed and duplicitous signals are exasperating.

That's why I've given it a rest. I'll scribble away on my blog for now and may yet get back with you about that other thing.

maximo said...

oh fer cryin out loud...